mrsronweasley (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
mrsronweasley) wrote2002-10-08 12:16 pm
mrsronweasley) wrote2002-10-08 12:16 pm
On Defending R/S. A rant.
Or, simply - &^&*^&*^%&*%&%&"^*&(£)£&*"^(&!!!!!!!!!!
Ahem.
WARNING: Do not read if you are easily offended by slash and/or swearing and/or people blowing up!
This rant is long-overdue for me, and with such a rant, I will no doubt offend some people (or many people, depending on who reads this journal), but it is my journal, therefore, I shall rant. I had thought of making this a "friends only" rant, but what the hell. The more, the merrier. Flame away.
Anyway, onto the rant.
Why is it that it is perfectly Ok to pair a student and a teacher up, as long as they're both of opposite sex, while it is NOT Ok to pair up two consenting adults, just because they're both male? Or two legal boys, just because they're both boys? Why is it that slash trivializes friendships, while a completely out of the blue het romance doesn't? Why do people jump down my throat just because I feel that Remus and Sirius fit so well together? And why am I not allowed to say that, say, Remus and Hermione pisses me off more than words can say?
Now, before I become a total hypocrite, let me just say that, yes, I have been known to indulge in some guilty pleasure fics that are sort of on the same level as Remus/Hermione, and if you don't know what I'm talking about, you probably shouldn't. But it was only very selectively. In fact, by ONE author. (You know who you are.) I read her stuff on principal, because she is good.
Now, back to my rant - someone on my "home-base" site said that her upper-class Catholic upbringing taught her that homosexuality was wrong. As someone who is supposed to uphold the rules on that site, I only said about a hundredth of what I wanted to that person. Here, I am going to vent. Carol was right in her assessment: "Which particular swamps do these people crawl out of?" (I hope you don't mind me quoting you, but it was perfect!)
Said person also said that she had since rebeled in some of the things that she had been told, but some things just stay with you.
Well, if you're going to be blind and ignorant and refuse to look at something from all points of view, then it is your own damn fault and don't blame the church. I have many things against organized religion, but I also know of people who remain good Catholics and good open-minded people - and one thing doesn't cancel out the other.
MAKE YOUR OWN DAMN CHOICES IN LIFE.
If you simply agree that homosexuality is wrong, then I have no respect for you. If you come to that conclusion on your own, I will disagree with you, and we may argue until the cows come home, but at least I will respect you a little more for having decided on your own.
But, that is not all I wanted to say to that person, and it may be unprofessional of me, and it may be showing my mean side a little too much, but you know what? I'm pissed off enough that I will say it.
You closed-minded bitch.
There. I am a horrible person. Fine. But at least I got it out of my system.
I shall now go back to being a good Professor.
And as for slash trivializing friendship, I have only this to say - if Remus had been a woman (see Liz shudder), then NOBODY would have a problem with them being together. But, suddenly, their brotherhood is called into question, just because some (actually, many) think that they should also be sleeping together. Because if you're fucking, then you can't be as close as brothers. You suddenly can't be friends. I would like to know of one relationship that has worked that hadn't been based on friendship - or that didn't involve friendship in any way. Sex alone does not merit a relationship. I think most good slash writers know that, which is why GOOD R/S is so much more than people believe it to be. Especially the people that haven't read any of it.
Having said that, sex is not evil. Sex is good. Even - gasp! - between two men or two women.
And anyone who would take, say (and this really is out of the blue) Tom/Ginny over Remus/Sirius just because Tom is male, and Ginny is female, needs help.
And I really want to end on a good note, and for me this is it:
Fics recs - (beware: most are slash!)
Anne has finally put her WiP on a site other than the SBRL list (thank you for tipping me off!) and everyone should go and read it now. So far, there are only three chapters up (while she's written 8), but they are so worth it. Her writing is absolutely gorgeous.
It's actually a trilogy, and the first part is complete:
At The Cursed House
It's gen, and tells the story of how Remus got to go Hogwarts. Features spot-on Moody and Dumbledore.
Whom He May Devour
This is the WiP. And it takes my breath away. And at the same time it makes me cry, because there are some parts that make Anne one of the most evil writers out there - in the best of sense, of course!
There's also this little story, one that I often reread, just for the hell of it. Because it's that good. *Mwah!* to the writer! :)
Set on Fire
One of the best PWPs out there. Remember the 'sex is good' part? Heh.
Then, there's this gen story that is one of the best WiP's out there -
A Most Unusual Student
Those of you who haven't read it, DO. In fact, I urge you to check out all of Alkari's stuff, as she is amazing. And she just updated yesterday. Whooohooo!
There are plenty more, but I will stop right here for now. I wanted to cover many sides of R/S, and here they are - love, friendship, and desire. All rolled into one, many-layered, many-ficced package.
Ah, good stories make me happy...
And now back to our regular programming.
Ahem.
WARNING: Do not read if you are easily offended by slash and/or swearing and/or people blowing up!
This rant is long-overdue for me, and with such a rant, I will no doubt offend some people (or many people, depending on who reads this journal), but it is my journal, therefore, I shall rant. I had thought of making this a "friends only" rant, but what the hell. The more, the merrier. Flame away.
Anyway, onto the rant.
Why is it that it is perfectly Ok to pair a student and a teacher up, as long as they're both of opposite sex, while it is NOT Ok to pair up two consenting adults, just because they're both male? Or two legal boys, just because they're both boys? Why is it that slash trivializes friendships, while a completely out of the blue het romance doesn't? Why do people jump down my throat just because I feel that Remus and Sirius fit so well together? And why am I not allowed to say that, say, Remus and Hermione pisses me off more than words can say?
Now, before I become a total hypocrite, let me just say that, yes, I have been known to indulge in some guilty pleasure fics that are sort of on the same level as Remus/Hermione, and if you don't know what I'm talking about, you probably shouldn't. But it was only very selectively. In fact, by ONE author. (You know who you are.) I read her stuff on principal, because she is good.
Now, back to my rant - someone on my "home-base" site said that her upper-class Catholic upbringing taught her that homosexuality was wrong. As someone who is supposed to uphold the rules on that site, I only said about a hundredth of what I wanted to that person. Here, I am going to vent. Carol was right in her assessment: "Which particular swamps do these people crawl out of?" (I hope you don't mind me quoting you, but it was perfect!)
Said person also said that she had since rebeled in some of the things that she had been told, but some things just stay with you.
Well, if you're going to be blind and ignorant and refuse to look at something from all points of view, then it is your own damn fault and don't blame the church. I have many things against organized religion, but I also know of people who remain good Catholics and good open-minded people - and one thing doesn't cancel out the other.
MAKE YOUR OWN DAMN CHOICES IN LIFE.
If you simply agree that homosexuality is wrong, then I have no respect for you. If you come to that conclusion on your own, I will disagree with you, and we may argue until the cows come home, but at least I will respect you a little more for having decided on your own.
But, that is not all I wanted to say to that person, and it may be unprofessional of me, and it may be showing my mean side a little too much, but you know what? I'm pissed off enough that I will say it.
You closed-minded bitch.
There. I am a horrible person. Fine. But at least I got it out of my system.
I shall now go back to being a good Professor.
And as for slash trivializing friendship, I have only this to say - if Remus had been a woman (see Liz shudder), then NOBODY would have a problem with them being together. But, suddenly, their brotherhood is called into question, just because some (actually, many) think that they should also be sleeping together. Because if you're fucking, then you can't be as close as brothers. You suddenly can't be friends. I would like to know of one relationship that has worked that hadn't been based on friendship - or that didn't involve friendship in any way. Sex alone does not merit a relationship. I think most good slash writers know that, which is why GOOD R/S is so much more than people believe it to be. Especially the people that haven't read any of it.
Having said that, sex is not evil. Sex is good. Even - gasp! - between two men or two women.
And anyone who would take, say (and this really is out of the blue) Tom/Ginny over Remus/Sirius just because Tom is male, and Ginny is female, needs help.
And I really want to end on a good note, and for me this is it:
Fics recs - (beware: most are slash!)
Anne has finally put her WiP on a site other than the SBRL list (thank you for tipping me off!) and everyone should go and read it now. So far, there are only three chapters up (while she's written 8), but they are so worth it. Her writing is absolutely gorgeous.
It's actually a trilogy, and the first part is complete:
At The Cursed House
It's gen, and tells the story of how Remus got to go Hogwarts. Features spot-on Moody and Dumbledore.
Whom He May Devour
This is the WiP. And it takes my breath away. And at the same time it makes me cry, because there are some parts that make Anne one of the most evil writers out there - in the best of sense, of course!
There's also this little story, one that I often reread, just for the hell of it. Because it's that good. *Mwah!* to the writer! :)
Set on Fire
One of the best PWPs out there. Remember the 'sex is good' part? Heh.
Then, there's this gen story that is one of the best WiP's out there -
A Most Unusual Student
Those of you who haven't read it, DO. In fact, I urge you to check out all of Alkari's stuff, as she is amazing. And she just updated yesterday. Whooohooo!
There are plenty more, but I will stop right here for now. I wanted to cover many sides of R/S, and here they are - love, friendship, and desire. All rolled into one, many-layered, many-ficced package.
Ah, good stories make me happy...
And now back to our regular programming.
no subject
I fully agree with you. I hate how people think that their friendship/brotherhood is compromised by them sleeping together. Fucking hate it. (Incidentally I also agree on your first point, but have less to say on it as you said it perfectly.)
Mind you I fit into the rabid R/S shipper category so this opinion from me is not all that surprising.
Have not read that series, but will give it a look when I next have an oppourtunity.
Rant anytime you like. :)
-Tali
no subject
and thank you, i'm glad i'm not the only one that thinks that!
you KICK ARSE
A great big DITTO over here. I saw that post, and very nearly posted a rant, but when I relaised it probably involve getting my arse kicked in a modly manner, I just tried to ignore it. Oh how much did I want to shout 'If you're a bigot that's your own fucking problem!' I get that being raised in a very restrictive environment makes it harder to break out of that kind of thinking, but it's NOT impossible. Think for yourselves, for fuck's sake.
And as for the whole idea that men and women can sleep together while being friends but two guys or two girls can't... well, WTF? doesn't really cover it, somehow.
Re: you KICK ARSE
and you kick ARSE as well! *mwah*
no subject
I've both said that so many times, and heard the contrary arguments so many times. It pisses me off to the nth degree, and anything else I would say, you covered already.
Sigh. It's something I rant on, often.
And besides (yeah, here we go), it's that sort of thinking that leads young people to thinking they're a freak or twisted or sick or wrong for falling in love with their same-gendered best friend, when it can be the most natural thing in the world.
*growls* Like friendship can't shift and change and grow into romantic love, and still the same friendship is there, but more. Intensified, if anything. It's still there and still the basis, and all the sex in the world won't keep the relationship going if the friendship isn't there, or if there isn't *something* behind it to back it up. There's more than attraction there...
... and I'm rambling on and on and I'll be late for class.
Needless to say, you rock, ITA, and all that rot
;-)
~MT
no subject
no subject
Yeah. *grin* It is sorta funny, come to think of it.
And I've done it more than once, too. Once with a girl, once with a guy. Oi. Proof it's all about the person for me, and not about the gender they happen to be residing in. =)
and you're wonderful, too. and don't you forget it. :)
*blush*
I am prone to forgetting that, I will admit, so thanks for the reminder ;)
~MT
no subject
it is funny - in a sad sort of way. and you're right - it is all about the person. just wish some people would understand... *grumbles* but that's all right. we do and that counts for something, right? :)
*hugs*
no subject
Everytime someone is like "Yes, there's slash fiction and it's ok that it exists...but OHMIGOD I DON'T READ IT EWW EWW EWW" I wonder why people are more concerned with distancing themselves from that than from...oh...ridiculous ships, or horribly written porn, or any of that. (That point was not coherent but I hope you know what I mean...)
I've argued all this stuff before...and I or people more eloquent than I have posted on it numerous times. The double standard of everything irks me. It all irks me. But thank you for giving voice to the irkdom. It was beautiful...MWAH!
Take care...will email you as soon as life calms down (but have three hour rehearsal every night this week so that might not be soon:-( )
no subject
"Yes, there's slash fiction and it's ok that it exists...but OHMIGOD I DON'T READ IT EWW EWW EWW"
LOL, I'm sorry, that just cracked me up!
On a more serious note, yes, I know exactly what you mean - all about the double standards, etc. UGH. I'm glad you enjoyed my little rant. BOY, did I need to write it.
And don't worry about the email - as long as I get it at some point, it's all good. ;) And chex out the appreciation thread on the Quill. :)
*MWAH!*
no subject
Perefctly said, It really annoys me when people go on about how wrong homosexual relationships are. I love R/S they compliment each other so well, in friendship and as a couple.
I think you said it all really, thankyou!
no subject
no subject
Hehe, didn't realize I was missing in my full form! ;) Hehe... I guess I need to rant and rave more often, huh? Huh. *cacklecackle*
I have to disagree here. In my opinion, you can't be a truly "good Catholic" -that would be someone who follows the Church rules and beliefs and teachings- and be an open-minded person at the same time. Simply because being Catholic implies being close-minded in a huge amount of subjects. And the same apply to almost any other organized religion. Religions are closed-minded by default.
Ah, that is where I shall disagree with you. :) I have PLENTY of issues with Catholicism, as well as other organized religions, don't get me wrong, but I do know people who are...well, different. Take my friend Theresa. She's Catholic. She goes to mass even if she has to miss a part of a pub crawl to do it. She also hates bigotry and prejudice. She adores Oscar Wilde. One of her very best friends is gay and she misses him like crazy. She questions her faith constantly and loves to do it. That way, she will know that she is doing the right thing. She doesn't pressure anyone else to join Catholicism and takes our little jabs of her being a good Catholic girl in stride and laughs along with us. She also likes the idea of R/S. ;) So, really, if a person wanted to go along with the church and still believe in his or her own ideas, s/he could. And a lot of religions are less restrictive than others, like Orthodox Judaism vs. Reformed Judaism. In my hometown back in the states, a FEMALE rabbi married off two men. So, you never know...
Oh, yes! Sex is good. Sex has many healing properties.
*cacklecakcle* Damn straight! ;)
Awww, I'm touched. :) I'll rant and rave for you more often, dear! ;) Hehehee... *HUGS*
no subject
(Anonymous) 2002-10-09 04:00 pm (UTC)(link)I read your reply to that post -- it was calm and reasonable and well-argued. You would have been justified in jumping on her head, too, but either way, you got your point across.
Don't you help run that site? That must have been akin to inviting someone into your house, then watching as they deliberately throw up all over the carpet. And her happy reference to the spectre of book-burning made my blood boil; but now I suspect I'm spending too much time contemplating the thoughts of an idiot.
And of course you know that the 'But why can't they just be friends?' whinges on that thread were just anti-slashers trying to sound reasonable.
Good to see you in fine form!
Carol
no subject
Hehe...I love it.
I don't exactly help run that site, but I am a Professor, so I can't really start a war. And I don't want to - it would go against the new rules that really are good for the site, and upset the mods. But I know that many did seethe. Bah, that bitch...
What is it that I keep hearing about fine form? Have I really ranted that often?! LOL
no subject
Now I'm off to read 'Set on Fire', 'cause I haven't read that... :D