mrsronweasley (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
mrsronweasley) wrote2004-07-05 06:20 pm
mrsronweasley) wrote2004-07-05 06:20 pm
(no subject)
A recent post by Minx reminded me of something I was going to write, just to sort of get it down on paper, as it were. I've been thinking a lot about writing lately, and what I do and don't like. This sort of has to do with things that work for me as a reader, as well as someone who dabbles in writing, and hopes to make it her number one way of making a living someday. So, this won't be in any order, it's both on fanfiction and any fiction at all. It's all just my opinion, obviously, so any pet-peeves encountered are my own problem.
For instance, I strongly dislike - STRONGLY dislike - characterization being upstaged by pretty language that is used to show off the author's skill. First of all, in fanfiction, that skill is often not enough. I mean, weaving interesting and pretty phrases and sentences is great - I love it, I love words, I love new and interesting ways of writing. However, when characters all read as cardboard cutouts with no personalities just because the grittiness would get in the way of the pretty, I get frustrated. Especially in fanfiction, in fact. Presumably, we write fanfiction because we like these characters, these situations, these worlds. How can we forget about them, and just write Any Two/Three/Whatever People without using their own personalities? Same goes for plot. I really believe that the characters need to control the plot, not the other way around. This may not go along with certain literary theories, ideas of art, etc, but that's the way I like it. I think about real life, and I apply it to my writing. It doesn't always work, obviously, but it does make writing more interesting and somewhat livelier (at least I hope it does.) If I can see a certain character in a certain situation, I like it. When I can't, it drives me nuts.
Of course - and that's a big 'of course' - in fanfiction, we may all see the characters differently, therefore our ideas of what they would do/are capable of are very different. This is where I just stick to the characterizations I like, obviously. However, there's also the fact that I've seen people talk about how they see certain characters, and then write something that doesn't go along with those ideas at all. Or, like I said, the characters are just blank canvases that never get filled. Or they're boring. Or whatever. I think you see my point by now.
I hate being told, as opposed to being shown. Yes, we've all heard this in our English/other first language classes, and it's so true. I want to BE in the scene, in that character's head, really SEEING the scene through their eyes. I don't want to be told that at a specific moment, they suddenly felt something new. I want to know how it happens, and for what reasons. It IS possible to show all this instead of outlining, I've seen it done, and it was perfect. So many writers tend to just skip the hard part and get to the easy part, and I've done it myself, and gone back to reread and wanted to throw up. I just love being in the scene, I suppose.
As for strictly fanfiction, my pet peeves are pretty well documented in various places. I like canon. I like turning back to canon as an anchor. Canon is why I started with this whole thing in the first place. Canon is where I'll stay (unless it's concerned with a certain Bad Event, in which place, I'll put on my Denial Shoes and dance the monkey). I don't like unbelievable (to me) pairings, I don't like slash for the sake of slash, or het for the sake of het. I want explanations. I need to know why, and I need the 'why' to make sense. (I'm a needy bitch, wow.) The way I see it is, if you want to write certain people together that wouldn't actually be together under any circumstances in canon, you should just suck it up and write original characters, ones that are clean slates and can do whatever they like, including putting on Denial Shoes and dancing the monkey. In other words, Harry really doesn't want Hermione, Neville really isn't going to fuck his toad, and Tonks is a big bad dyke and dykes and poofs don't have sex together. (Ok, that last one may not be quite CANON, but.. but... you know... We don't really know, do we?)
But like I said - these are my perceptions of canon, my preferences, and my beliefs. I've read things that have sucked me into them even with unbelievable pairings because the authors had done such amazing things with showing and explaining and, well, writing in general.
And, yes, I realize that I went through a Snape/Harry phase. I have two words for you: Minx and Cybele. I think I can rest my case.
Randomly, not having anything to do with writing: I hate doing the hard things.
For instance, I strongly dislike - STRONGLY dislike - characterization being upstaged by pretty language that is used to show off the author's skill. First of all, in fanfiction, that skill is often not enough. I mean, weaving interesting and pretty phrases and sentences is great - I love it, I love words, I love new and interesting ways of writing. However, when characters all read as cardboard cutouts with no personalities just because the grittiness would get in the way of the pretty, I get frustrated. Especially in fanfiction, in fact. Presumably, we write fanfiction because we like these characters, these situations, these worlds. How can we forget about them, and just write Any Two/Three/Whatever People without using their own personalities? Same goes for plot. I really believe that the characters need to control the plot, not the other way around. This may not go along with certain literary theories, ideas of art, etc, but that's the way I like it. I think about real life, and I apply it to my writing. It doesn't always work, obviously, but it does make writing more interesting and somewhat livelier (at least I hope it does.) If I can see a certain character in a certain situation, I like it. When I can't, it drives me nuts.
Of course - and that's a big 'of course' - in fanfiction, we may all see the characters differently, therefore our ideas of what they would do/are capable of are very different. This is where I just stick to the characterizations I like, obviously. However, there's also the fact that I've seen people talk about how they see certain characters, and then write something that doesn't go along with those ideas at all. Or, like I said, the characters are just blank canvases that never get filled. Or they're boring. Or whatever. I think you see my point by now.
I hate being told, as opposed to being shown. Yes, we've all heard this in our English/other first language classes, and it's so true. I want to BE in the scene, in that character's head, really SEEING the scene through their eyes. I don't want to be told that at a specific moment, they suddenly felt something new. I want to know how it happens, and for what reasons. It IS possible to show all this instead of outlining, I've seen it done, and it was perfect. So many writers tend to just skip the hard part and get to the easy part, and I've done it myself, and gone back to reread and wanted to throw up. I just love being in the scene, I suppose.
As for strictly fanfiction, my pet peeves are pretty well documented in various places. I like canon. I like turning back to canon as an anchor. Canon is why I started with this whole thing in the first place. Canon is where I'll stay (unless it's concerned with a certain Bad Event, in which place, I'll put on my Denial Shoes and dance the monkey). I don't like unbelievable (to me) pairings, I don't like slash for the sake of slash, or het for the sake of het. I want explanations. I need to know why, and I need the 'why' to make sense. (I'm a needy bitch, wow.) The way I see it is, if you want to write certain people together that wouldn't actually be together under any circumstances in canon, you should just suck it up and write original characters, ones that are clean slates and can do whatever they like, including putting on Denial Shoes and dancing the monkey. In other words, Harry really doesn't want Hermione, Neville really isn't going to fuck his toad, and Tonks is a big bad dyke and dykes and poofs don't have sex together. (Ok, that last one may not be quite CANON, but.. but... you know... We don't really know, do we?)
But like I said - these are my perceptions of canon, my preferences, and my beliefs. I've read things that have sucked me into them even with unbelievable pairings because the authors had done such amazing things with showing and explaining and, well, writing in general.
And, yes, I realize that I went through a Snape/Harry phase. I have two words for you: Minx and Cybele. I think I can rest my case.
Randomly, not having anything to do with writing: I hate doing the hard things.
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And me too. Sigh, eh? *HUGS*
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As for the other thing... *HUGS* Remember: email is good. If you want to talk... :)
*HUGS*
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And you too, lovie. I also have a 24 hour telephone hotline, complete with helpful assistant who will ring you at any time, day or night.
xxxxxxxxxxxx love you. :)
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MWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
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And just in case you were wondering, yeah, still love you. :) *HUGS*
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Hmm, the thing with the pretty language is, I think that's just a different kind of writing. It's like prose poetry vs. traditional narrative, and as someone who has written both, and reads both, I think they're really intended to do different things, and have different effects, and either can be really, really sublime.
Anyway, that said, I have noticed a disturbing trend in every fandom I've been in, where people will have, during discussions, a really fascinating take on a character, and then when they write that all goes away and gets replaced by... something virtually unrecognizable.
And that pairing thing: AMEN. I've had this discussion with a friend of mine who used to be into a VERY unlikely couple (She's since become a vague canon!whore) wherein my basic point was that, to write them as a pairing, one would need to write them as entirely different people... and indeed, in stories where they are lovers, they are almost universally written as entirely different people. So what's the point? Confusing.
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I agree somewhat about the fact that pretty writing is a differnet kind of writing, but oftentimes, it DOES get mixed up by people, and the idea of their story/ficlet is lost because of that. So, even if they seem to be trying to go for both, but don't really succeed in either. It's frustrating.
And the trend to totally disregard their original takes on the characters to write something totally unrecognizeable, well... it's just baffling to me.
So what's the point? Confusing.
I don't know, beats me. Perhaps it's a sort of exercise in trying to see if they can pull it off, but if the characters refuse to be written that way, well... yeah. See? Doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm just closed-minded. *g*
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This was the part of your post that had me a bit confused... I'm wondering what for you is the correlation between pretty (and sometimes pretentious) prose and poor characterisation- I'm not asking to be a jerk, I swear! I'm only curious as to how you define this- too much description of the physical? Too much telling rather than showing? This is something I deal with as a writer- and seeing as you've addressed the (mis)use of descriptive language in your post, I'd just like to hear more of your thoughts.
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I'm not sure this is any better...damn.
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I love beautiful language, I love it a lot, but only when it's used right, not when it's done for its own sake alone.
Sometimes it's like having a new toy, or discovering a new sweet; the writer gets so into it, they can't be objective- realize that language can be distracting. I once read some writerly advice: If you write a sentence for the sake of the sentence- cut it.
Alas, fic ain't poetry.
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Okay, if people mix up the prose style with the traditional narrative style, that's just looking for trouble, I think. So yes, I have to agree there. I've just got to speak up for amazing prose-poets like
"Oi, give me that chocolate frog!" Sirius snatched at Remus' captured treat. The sun set outside, filling the room with red light.
and
That day, Sirius snatched at Remus' chocolate frog as the sun bled red light through the shuttered windows.
Which are just going for entirely different things. Prose writing does tend to have a distanced sort of effect that not everyone likes, which is cool and all, but I don't think it's wrong or inferior, just a matter of taste, which I guess is what I was slightly offput by.
I don't know, beats me. Perhaps it's a sort of exercise in trying to see if they can pull it off, but if the characters refuse to be written that way, well... yeah. See? Doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm just closed-minded. *g*
HAHAHA I guess I am too, then. :D
Honestly, I think sometimes a character pings the bells in a person's head, and they get attached to the bits that ping them, and either forget about or don't notice the rest. Then they fill in the holes with more things they do like. And then they do it with another character and pour the two into their closest beloved archetypal relationship.
For example, Snape's bitterness, stormy emotions and intelligence might ping someone's Heathcliff-o-meter, and they'll find the closets Cathy-ish-person and pair them together, whether Snape and that person would ever get together or not. Meanwhile, they sort of ignore/forget about the part where he's not ONLY a bitter, intelligent guy with stormy emotions, he's also a petty 15-year-old bully in the body of a 37 year old man. (I LIKE Snape, by the way LOL)
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it, LOL
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*blinks* This is why I had a problem with Mary Jane in both Spidermans! (She has Mary Sue, plot device written all over her *sigh*) *cough* Sorry, I'm slow to figure some things out. This is also, I think, why I can't stand action flicks in general.
I like canon. I like turning back to canon as an anchor. Canon is why I started with this whole thing in the first place.
I tend to agree. I also tend to get frustrated by a lack of things that I actually want to read. I prefer that fics have a heavy hand of canon in them, but I also have a huge soft spot for AUs and post-Voldemort fics because they're something new and different and it's an extrapolation of what someone thinks of a character and their situation. As long as I know it's going to be AU or that it's going to be a post-Voldemort fic, I can generally forgive deviations in canon. I'll also give the characterizations a lot of leeway as long as they don't do something that monumentally pisses me off. Like characterize Sirius or Ron as total morons or make Snape and every Slytherin in the universe the best thing since sliced bread. But then again, I think that might be more because I tend to be a really sloppy writer myself. *looks a bit shamefaced*
I don't like slash for the sake of slash, or het for the sake of het.
*totally agrees* Sometimes I'll let it slide if I'm particularly enamored by a characterization apart from the romance, but yeah, those fics do fall flat because then you really have no reason to care if the characters get together or stay together or fuck like rabbits. Like a KS/RL that I read. I loved the exploration of Remus' character, but really didn't understand Kingsley's infatuation with him or why they were even moving towards that whole 'being together' thing. In fact, I think it would have worked better for me as a gen fic. *shrugs*
*lop-sided grin* Not that you asked for my opinion on any of this, just sparked a couple of loose thoughts in my head. ^-^;;
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Oh, yeah, totally! I hate that everything in action flicks is for the sake of the plot, and not the other way around. It's all so dumbed down that, well, yeah. Bleargh. It's not even enjoyable anymore, because you know exactly what's going to happen, when and how. And it's not that fun when it does.
As long as I know it's going to be AU or that it's going to be a post-Voldemort fic, I can generally forgive deviations in canon.
I used to do that, and, I suppose, I don't mind AUs that much, but...well, actually, no, wait, I do. Heh. I don't know why, but if it doesn't sound believable within canon, I can't take it. Don't. Know. Why. It's weird. Maybe I'm stupidly protective of it? Dunno.
I'll also give the characterizations a lot of leeway as long as they don't do something that monumentally pisses me off. Like characterize Sirius or Ron as total morons or make Snape and every Slytherin in the universe the best thing since sliced bread.
Oooohhh, that's one of my biggest and baddest pet peeves. *g* I see red and steam comes out of my ears when I see that. I just...cannot take it. At ALL. The back button and a rant become my best friends. I am just...so so so protective of those two. Even more so than Remus, because they get more shit than even he does, in terms of characterizations.
those fics do fall flat because then you really have no reason to care if the characters get together or stay together or fuck like rabbits.
Yeah, exactly. It just doesn't work for me. Or, even worse, it makes me laugh in a really bad sort of way. I'm evil like that.
And loose thoughts are good! I like loose thoughts. They're fun.
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Nah. It's a personal pref thing. And heavens knows, I read a lot of stuff that most people wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. ^-^;; And, I mean, it makes sense. Canon is the basis for the whole fandom. If you're not willing to work within it, why are you writing for it, you know? I can definitely see where you're coming from. And I have to admit that a lot of the AU and Post fics that I like are mostly because they're written by fairly decent authors, who make it work for me most often in spite of then because of, and I'm not adept enough at finding good fic to be too terribly picky.
I am just...so so so protective of those two.
Exactly. I don't really know what it is exactly that they did that pissed fandom off so much, but I can not stand seeing them characterized crappily. For fuck's sake, one is Harry's godfather and the other is his best friend. They care about Harry. Harry cares about them. It's both a character trait and a canon thing. It irritates me that people are so willing to dismiss that and that they think they're justified in flipping it around so that Ron and Sirius are the "bad guys". Makes me want to bitch smack them all into next week. >.< Both because it's crappy writing (if Harry's choice of best friend and his affection in his godfather is proven to be bad judgement due to the actions of either Sirius or Ron in fic, why the hell should we trust that Harry's choice of lover will be founded on any better judgement? He becomes a very untrustworthy character then.) and because it is so contrary to what we see in the books.
Um, and I'm going to stop ranting now. ^-^;;;;
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Amen. Sorry to get religious when I'm not, but.. amen.
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Sorry about the Snape/Harry phase. If it's any consolation, I'm out of mine, too.
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(Look at how articulate I am! Are you not impressed with me?!)